Interesting. Hadn't heard of Webbon. Sounds like he doesn't understand Nietzsche or Christ. I've been wrestling with a reconciliation of the two as well. I do not see Nietzsche's embrace of life as an embrace of hedonic pleasure as many of his champions and his critics agree.
Rather, I see Nietzsche's embrace of life as call to "overcoming" a human nature that is so weak it is easier to submit to the values and moral constraints of our contemporaries; the herd. This is much like Christ's call to reduce all of God's commandments to "love God and love your neighbor" as a call to overcome the tribalistic straight-jacket of his contemporaries; to rise above the moral constraints to which our nature finds it much easier to submit.
But what does it mean to "love one's neighbors"? During Christ's lifetime, it meant the immediate family, the tribe, the "nation". His was a time when radical compassion, mercy, and individual dignity was anathema to most. In other words, Christ was doing the "transvaluation of all values". The secularized, modern, liberal, democratic state is a bastardization of those teachings; an elevation of the very "slave morality" that Nietzsche identifies and describes. It has been so flattened and become so thoroughly infantilized and effeminate that the "transvaluation of all values" can only be a masculine, adult, stoic and responsible self doing the work of overcoming a self constructed by squishy libs over the last 200 years. If our world is emotivist and soft, we must be composed, prudent, and strong. We moderns have all learned to be "The Last Man" or, as Lewis put it, a "man without a chest". Empty, passionless, and incapable of standing for "The Good". Most importantly, incapable of responsibility
Nietzsche does not teach us to embrace unlimited cummies and copious bong hits. No. Rather, he teaches us to embrace life; to obey one's self in order to command others; to have the courage to "go down" in order to "go over". In an amoral, if not immoral world, restriction, control, and the loving act of enforcing consequences and maintaining accountability is compassion. This is the "transvaluation of all values".
Neither Christ or Nietzsche want us to invade Greenland or build resorts in Gaza or Caracas. But neither do they wish for us to roll with the herd. I find it interesting that both use the illusion.
“He came not to abolish the law but to fulfill it.”
That’s my point. I don’t think Christ is a Nietzschian. Rather, he is a beautiful example of Nietzsche’s ubermench; full filling the Law means being the kind of man that will piss into the wind. But that is the transvaluation of all values. He was going against what was well regarded and well respected by men. Not God or Gods Law.
That doesn’t mean a Christian should always push against the culture. But doesn’t scripture consistently teach that humans are always and will always be out of communion with God and the culture maintains and reinforces that alienation? To be “Christian” means to be out of step with human society to the extent that that society is out of step with God.
Reading Nietzsche did not make me think that Christ was sent to be Zarathustra. Rather, Zarathustra was a Christ-like character presenting a mirror. A mirror that shows humans to be the fake and duplicitous, cowardly and resentful, self interested and obtuse.
This doesn’t mean that Nietzsche was teaching Christianity. I’m quite confident he was a “new atheist”. But I think HIS anger and ressentiment made him able to see the deep anti-life current within Christian teaching. Promises of a life to come is no evidence that one loves life. Rather it’s more so evidence that one can only find communion with God beyond life. But that is a different discussion.
Thanks for reading and commenting. I certainly invite further nuance of my Nietzsche interpretation. I’m not a Nietzsche scholar and I’m certainly simplifying what I do understand of him for the point I’m making. I’d push back, however, on your claim that Christ is doing the “transvaluation of all values.” He came not to abolish the law but to fulfill it. He’s calling the human race back to their original created purpose. He’s circumcising hearts so that we can know God, love our neighbor, and live faithfully. If we’re not careful, we will reduce ethics merely to going against the herd. If that your understanding of Christ, you miss the point. He’s not perpetually opposing whatever prevails; he’s calling us back to the standard of love and compassion. IOW, culture doesn’t change the content of his message.
Interesting. Hadn't heard of Webbon. Sounds like he doesn't understand Nietzsche or Christ. I've been wrestling with a reconciliation of the two as well. I do not see Nietzsche's embrace of life as an embrace of hedonic pleasure as many of his champions and his critics agree.
Rather, I see Nietzsche's embrace of life as call to "overcoming" a human nature that is so weak it is easier to submit to the values and moral constraints of our contemporaries; the herd. This is much like Christ's call to reduce all of God's commandments to "love God and love your neighbor" as a call to overcome the tribalistic straight-jacket of his contemporaries; to rise above the moral constraints to which our nature finds it much easier to submit.
But what does it mean to "love one's neighbors"? During Christ's lifetime, it meant the immediate family, the tribe, the "nation". His was a time when radical compassion, mercy, and individual dignity was anathema to most. In other words, Christ was doing the "transvaluation of all values". The secularized, modern, liberal, democratic state is a bastardization of those teachings; an elevation of the very "slave morality" that Nietzsche identifies and describes. It has been so flattened and become so thoroughly infantilized and effeminate that the "transvaluation of all values" can only be a masculine, adult, stoic and responsible self doing the work of overcoming a self constructed by squishy libs over the last 200 years. If our world is emotivist and soft, we must be composed, prudent, and strong. We moderns have all learned to be "The Last Man" or, as Lewis put it, a "man without a chest". Empty, passionless, and incapable of standing for "The Good". Most importantly, incapable of responsibility
Nietzsche does not teach us to embrace unlimited cummies and copious bong hits. No. Rather, he teaches us to embrace life; to obey one's self in order to command others; to have the courage to "go down" in order to "go over". In an amoral, if not immoral world, restriction, control, and the loving act of enforcing consequences and maintaining accountability is compassion. This is the "transvaluation of all values".
Neither Christ or Nietzsche want us to invade Greenland or build resorts in Gaza or Caracas. But neither do they wish for us to roll with the herd. I find it interesting that both use the illusion.
But I'm still working . . .
“He came not to abolish the law but to fulfill it.”
That’s my point. I don’t think Christ is a Nietzschian. Rather, he is a beautiful example of Nietzsche’s ubermench; full filling the Law means being the kind of man that will piss into the wind. But that is the transvaluation of all values. He was going against what was well regarded and well respected by men. Not God or Gods Law.
That doesn’t mean a Christian should always push against the culture. But doesn’t scripture consistently teach that humans are always and will always be out of communion with God and the culture maintains and reinforces that alienation? To be “Christian” means to be out of step with human society to the extent that that society is out of step with God.
Reading Nietzsche did not make me think that Christ was sent to be Zarathustra. Rather, Zarathustra was a Christ-like character presenting a mirror. A mirror that shows humans to be the fake and duplicitous, cowardly and resentful, self interested and obtuse.
This doesn’t mean that Nietzsche was teaching Christianity. I’m quite confident he was a “new atheist”. But I think HIS anger and ressentiment made him able to see the deep anti-life current within Christian teaching. Promises of a life to come is no evidence that one loves life. Rather it’s more so evidence that one can only find communion with God beyond life. But that is a different discussion.
Thanks for reading and commenting. I certainly invite further nuance of my Nietzsche interpretation. I’m not a Nietzsche scholar and I’m certainly simplifying what I do understand of him for the point I’m making. I’d push back, however, on your claim that Christ is doing the “transvaluation of all values.” He came not to abolish the law but to fulfill it. He’s calling the human race back to their original created purpose. He’s circumcising hearts so that we can know God, love our neighbor, and live faithfully. If we’re not careful, we will reduce ethics merely to going against the herd. If that your understanding of Christ, you miss the point. He’s not perpetually opposing whatever prevails; he’s calling us back to the standard of love and compassion. IOW, culture doesn’t change the content of his message.